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Post by ivantheterrific on Aug 31, 2006 22:57:45 GMT -5
lol you took that theory from Xenocide by Orson Scott Card. And even in the book, he makes sure to say that the theory is just made to fit another theory, that its not accually a very good theory. Are you accusing me of plagerism!?! Thats slander, and that is illegal!!! I expected more from a moderator. I even looked at your posts and thought you were one to debate on facts, not these low class smear wars. Your slander will not be tollerated!
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Post by Vash on Sept 2, 2006 15:11:42 GMT -5
Don't worry about him too much Ivan.
Gamerman, there is such a thing as coincidence, you really shouldn't assume things like that.
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Post by Lobstrosity on Sept 2, 2006 15:42:51 GMT -5
off topic anyway.
In the destiny versus choice debate, first of all you can separate destiny into two types. Type one destiny is that a god or some higher power has everything planned out, whether every tiny detail or just a broad guideline is irrelevant, it could be either. But to believe this you must of course believe in that higher power. Type two destiny is that everything is already set to happen on a grand timeline, and that whatever you "choose" to do is what will happen, and if you choose to do something else, then that is what would have happened anyway and nothing really changed. The most common display of type two destiny is when someone tries to travel through time. One example is in RvB, when Church goes back in time to change everything to save Tex, but is unable to because everything he does results in the same thing happening, because he had actually already done it, meaning there were spontaneously two already when it happened the first time. This idea of course results in time paradoxes, but of course time travel only outlines the idea of type two destiny, it isn't necessary for it to work, just a way of testing it (not for real, but in movies and such).
These are the two types of destiny, and I can only think of one opposed idea of choice, the idea that everyone makes their own decisions and they all interact. This is the most simple idea because it is based solely on observations. We observe people interacting on a daily basis, all making choices that effect all the outcomes of situations that we observe. Nothing complicated, no underlying scheme, no cosmic plan or force, just simply cause and effect.
So the question is first, if you believe destiny, then which destiny, type one or two, as I have described above. If you don't believe in a higher power or guiding force, then type one isn't for you. If you still think everything is already set to happen and any changes are not changes at all because they are also set to happen, then type two destiny is your belief. If you believe that everything is simply cause and effect, then it's choice that you want.
Oh, also you can believe in a higher power, but still believe in choice, if you think the higher power is just uncaring and leaves everything up to everyone. The same as what I said but with a higher power that does nothing to intervene with anyone's decisions. I'll call that type 2 choice.
So here are the options as I see them.
Type 1 Destiny: "God has a plan" Type 2 Destiny: "We follow an eternal timeline" Type 1 Choice: "Cause and Effect" Type 2 Choice: "Cause and Effect, but God is watching"
Whatever you believe is entirely up to you, I just want to make it a little easier by outlining these choices. So if anyone cares, I believe in type 1 choice.
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Post by Kagome on Feb 6, 2007 21:38:13 GMT -5
I believe in 2 Destiny
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