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Post by chica on Jul 31, 2005 19:09:27 GMT -5
i really like that story.
ok story time-i went to a mission trip this week and one of the nights the guy gave us a sermon thingy about following god's plan for you. and the whole destiny vs. choice thing came to my mind. he says that god has a plan and you have to follow god and do what god says, and yet I don't believe in that. yes god may have a plan but there are choices on they way aren't there? people who believe in choice what do you think?
i know we're not supposed to get really religious but it's another way to look at it. god has a plan and you have to follow that plan and give up your life for god and god's plan.
this guy who was telling us all this gave up his choice of being a doctor for being pastor. he could've made a lot of money adn lived in a nice area adn had a life of luxury (doctors are paid a lot but I don't think that much but o well) and yet he gave it up for god. if it were my choice I am ashamed to say I would go with the money
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jul 31, 2005 22:05:52 GMT -5
Hmmm. . . Well I think those who believe in destiny and all that think that even your choices are part of God's plan and everything along your path to your destiny is set. I of course don't believe in any of that.
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Post by chica on Aug 1, 2005 19:43:26 GMT -5
that's just way confusing because it then wouldn't be your personal choice if it was planned out for you anyway it would be the choice of god making you take that certain choice.
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Post by Lobstrosity on Aug 1, 2005 20:48:16 GMT -5
I suppose, but I guess you could make the argument that they are your choices but they are already known by God, thus making it "destiny" or "fate" or whatever you want to call it.
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Post by Umbrafire on Aug 1, 2005 21:05:05 GMT -5
I believe in God, but I don't quite know my view on choice. There are a number of choices (lol) for interpreting choice. One movie that does a pretty good job of trying to interpret choice would be The Matrix. Anyway, the interpretations are things like, "Choice is an illusion, created by those with power and those without power," or, "Choices are illusions that are really determined by each person's intricate personality and current situation."
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Post by GamerMan on Aug 2, 2005 0:45:39 GMT -5
ya except they failed in #2 and 3 for continueing the idea of destiny vs. choice... and number 1... neo came back from the dead... I dont like that very much... we was dead, that should have been it, nothing more. Smith won, neo lost, that was it, he wasn't chosen one but they allowed him to come back just to add drama and to make it so the good guys won.
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Post by Umbrafire on Aug 2, 2005 10:32:22 GMT -5
okay, the off-topicness ends after this, but for clarification, neo IS the chosen one in the first movie, and they do most of the destiny vs. choice stuff in #2.
i mean, the entire scene with the merovingian is all about choice and then the architect scene is talking about choice as well
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Post by chica on Aug 10, 2005 17:56:32 GMT -5
and where is this leading to?
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Post by Lobstrosity on Feb 24, 2006 0:34:02 GMT -5
Ain't no such thing as destiny
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Post by ivantheterrific on Jul 28, 2006 16:26:31 GMT -5
It is all destiny, not choice. Choice requires free will, something we dont have. We only have the illusion of free will. We think we have free will just because the the causes of our behavior are so complex that we can't trace it back. However, we have to treat everything as free will anyways to hold society together. If we treated everyone like puppets, then those who do bad things go unpunished, those who do good things go unrewarderd, and no one does any work because why do a task if all you are accomplishing is what the puppetmaster is telliing you to. So everything is destiny and automation, but we have to treat them as freewill and choice to keep society running.
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jul 31, 2006 9:06:43 GMT -5
That's rediculous. Just because there are factors influencing people's decisions doesn't mean that they aren't really making their decisions.
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Post by GamerMan on Aug 13, 2006 1:02:10 GMT -5
It is all destiny, not choice. Choice requires free will, something we dont have. We only have the illusion of free will. We think we have free will just because the the causes of our behavior are so complex that we can't trace it back. However, we have to treat everything as free will anyways to hold society together. If we treated everyone like puppets, then those who do bad things go unpunished, those who do good things go unrewarderd, and no one does any work because why do a task if all you are accomplishing is what the puppetmaster is telliing you to. So everything is destiny and automation, but we have to treat them as freewill and choice to keep society running. lol you took that theory from Xenocide by Orson Scott Card. And even in the book, he makes sure to say that the theory is just made to fit another theory, that its not accually a very good theory. And anyways, things are defined by events as obserbed. observations of us moving are hand is free will since by all clear indications, we chose to move it. And thus, even though it is only a set of chemical reactions, it is by all practical purposes free will because it is the most basic observations we base the idea of free will on.
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Post by Kagome on Aug 19, 2006 1:20:06 GMT -5
can't we just say there is both and that is what alternate universes exist for? So you never are truly destined or truly get a choice. Of course it'd be weird if there were an alternate universe for every kind of cereal choice you got in the morning. who knows how that could change your life *Twilight Zone theme plays*?
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Post by KiddoFreak on Aug 24, 2006 23:14:32 GMT -5
Well, I'd already stated that idea, but it would be much more complex than "what cereal we had for breakfast". An alternate universe would exist for the limitless, almost infinate number of variables every smallest fraction of time possible. Quite literally, there are near infinate things you can do in any situation. Then there's an infinate number of things other people can do, and an even larger number of situations that arise from those infinate number of choices. I called it the "Web" as ever action or inaction could possibly influence everyone else in the entire universe somehow.
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PowerMad
Silver Member
OBJECTION!
Posts: 127
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Post by PowerMad on Aug 25, 2006 20:27:18 GMT -5
Destiney is just another word for future. It's a future you cannot see, and if you could, you could change it. In other words, it does not exsist.
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