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Post by Azan on Jan 9, 2006 18:36:39 GMT -5
Assuming they are exactly the same of course there would be evil ones, but why would they come as a group to kill us, also its fairly illogical to assume that evil aliens (and humans) would get together and then have the technology to come here to kill us. And evil people almost always have a motive for killing, and the ones that don't are just insane and aren't likely to group together. One of the most logical explanations for aliens coming to kill us would be because they are religious fanatics (Halos explanation), however that is a bit far fetched as Religion (especially fanatic) wouldn't have a very high place among a species that has the technology to get here. Oh, and another thing, studying something could be bad, such as testing to see just how far we can push ourselves before we die. Not testing, learning about our us, our culture, how we live. If they were smart enough to get here then they could look at our biological structure and learn how fast we can push ourselves before we die (and we already have the technology to do that). I'm not saying there is no chance that aliens would attack us, all I'm saying is that its so far fetched and illogical that I highly doubt it would ever happen assuming we make contact with aliens. |
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jan 9, 2006 19:03:37 GMT -5
Azan, when you're saying all that you are making about 50 different assumptions about said aliens and you can't be so sure about something like that.
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Post by Azan on Jan 9, 2006 19:15:42 GMT -5
Assuming they are exactly the same of Plus you can make assumptions, for example could an alien race that is completely violent amongst themselves, is intelligent and is not curious build a space ship fly here and kill us all? 1 they probably couldn't be organized enough to build the ship as they fight amongst themselves too much and 2 why would they explore the Universe if they aren't curious? (other than for personal gain such as resources, in which case they wouldn't come all the way to Earth to get them). See there you can make assumptions based off of logic and as you can see with all my previous posts I gave an explanation as to why they would or wouldn't do something even though I don't know if they exist or not (i believe the proper term is theory) and even though it may not be right, and of course there are exceptions however I stand by the theory that it would not be logical for aliens to spend resources, come all this way just to kill us. |
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jan 9, 2006 20:14:48 GMT -5
Logic doesn't apply to the unknown. Who says they'd fight amongst themselves anyway? They could just be malicious towards other species.
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Post by Azan on Jan 9, 2006 20:43:40 GMT -5
Of course logic does not apply to the unknown but this is not unknown, if they have the ability to think, to problem solve, to build technology to get here then thats not unknown, you can draw conclusions based off of just those facts on what their intentions are, sure they may not be right but there's a better chance that they are right. [  ] I never said that they would fight amongst themselves, I was just using that as an example to show how you could draw conclusions from something unknown, the part with the curiousity just so happened to work out with the possibility of real aliens, if they werent curious why would they come here? And if they were they would want to learn about us... [/ ] i just read what I posted (above paragraph), its really confusing but im on some drugs right now because of an infection from surgery but ill leave it there anyways... Also if they were smart why would they see the need to waste recources and possibley life on something that is pointless to them? |
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jan 9, 2006 22:22:01 GMT -5
You don't know enough about those facts to draw any reliable conclusions.
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Post by Vash on Jan 9, 2006 22:48:03 GMT -5
You don't know enough about those facts to draw any reliable conclusions. Those aren't facts at all. We have no proof of any aliens, thus we don't have any facts. |
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jan 9, 2006 23:25:22 GMT -5
we're still referring (kinda) to the movie signs in which it was a fact they they came to earth, or we are speaking about a situation in which they came to earth, it would then be a fact as well. But since we wouldn't know how they got here or anything, we can't make any logical assumptions with these facts.
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Post by Azan on Jan 10, 2006 16:45:39 GMT -5
You don't know enough about those facts to draw any reliable conclusions. Those aren't facts at all. We have no proof of any aliens, thus we don't have any facts. You can draw facts from Aliens coming here in ships (this is all saying that in the event that they did come here) although we have no proof of aliens but in order for them to come here they would have to be intelligent, thats a fact (well not really a fact but you can assume that they would be), you could assume that they were curious because why would a non curious race explore the universe that and the most intelligent species on Earth display curiosity, this is why they are intelligent as in order for an organism to learn on their own they have to have some form of curiosity... And as Lobstrosity said thats if we assume they came in ships, if you assume they came in ships or any other form of technology then you can draw facts from that, however you must compensate for random possibilities that defy the laws probability (IE theres a planet way off with all these Carnivores on it, they aren't very intelligent they just attack whatever they see then a wormhole (assuming they exist) opens up at their point and our point then they some how manage to survive coming through and they come here and start killing us, its possible according to string theory but even if it was possible the chances of it happening would be an insane amount like 1 in 100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100^100 chance of happening (which is more than all the particles of the universe BTW) and even then that is a bit small. And you cant proove that aliens dont exist, chances are that they do (even if they are just some basic form of life such as bacteria). |
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jan 10, 2006 18:27:34 GMT -5
You keep saying you can assume all these things, but you can't.
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Post by Azan on Jan 10, 2006 19:03:30 GMT -5
Lol Pretty much all the assumptions as you can see were contained within an example of what could happen how else am I supposed to set up an example without telling the reader what must be assumed for it to happen? Keep in mind im not going 100 percent that aliens wont attack im just giving examples as to why it seems improbable for aliens to attack us. "you could assume that they were curious because why would a non curious race explore the universe" Thats valid saying that if a race was intelligent and exploring the universe you could draw a conclusion that they were most likely curious, sure there are other possibilities but this is most logical and probable. (why do I feel like I keep saying the same thing over and over  ). You cant deny the fact that some things are going to be more probable than others, im merely giving explanations as to why somethings are more probable than others. Come on Lobstrosity lets see you back up your views, why wouldnt it be illogical or against the laws of probability for aliens to attack us on first contact? |
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jan 10, 2006 21:16:35 GMT -5
Simple. There is no way for us to apply any of our knowledge to life from another world, simply because we only have experience dealing with ourselves. Therefore under no circumstance an any assumption be made about aliens, ever.
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Post by Azan on Jan 10, 2006 21:30:36 GMT -5
Sure you can, if a spiecies is capable of getting here by themselves with technology you can assume they are most likely intelligent.
If we couldnt apply current knowledge to things we know nothing about we wouldnt get anywhere in life.
Remember the whole "How the universe began" thing, and the whole god thing, you dont know if god exists and assuming that he did you wouldnt know anything about him other than he created the universe, and yet you can draw conclusions from that (whether its real or not), its the same concept.
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jan 10, 2006 22:25:30 GMT -5
You can assume inteligence, but that is the end of the road, there is nothing more you can draw from it.
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Post by Azan on Jan 11, 2006 15:59:53 GMT -5
Ahh but you can (firstly have you ever heard the phrase "All intelligent minds think alike"? because it has significance to this...), based off how we observe intelligent spiecies learning it is most likely that they use curiosity to learn (i dont see many other ways that they could learn) through trial and error, this is how its done on Earth and there is a reason why all intelligent spiecies on Earth are curious, its because its the best method of learning, so it would be fair to say that they are most likely curious because if they were intelligent enough to get here and to build technology, and to even come here for that matter it shows that they are most likely curious and then you can conclude that their motive for coming here, well most likely their motive is that they are or would at least be interested in learning about us...
And you can create more and more branches of probability, however the probability of it happening decreases as you go down. But the above one I posted is more probable than them coming here to kill us.
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). You cant deny the fact that some things are going to be more probable than others, im merely giving explanations as to why somethings are more probable than others.