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Post by Azan on May 1, 2006 17:47:25 GMT -5
Im suprised that this one hasnt popped up yet. Anyways whats everyones opinions?
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Cloud
Silver Member
Sgt. Johnson: Well, I don't care if it's God's own personal anti-son-of-a-bitch machine, or a giant
Posts: 125
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Post by Cloud on May 2, 2006 9:58:27 GMT -5
Unless they come in legaly then keep them they came in the right way..
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Post by GamerMan on Jun 11, 2006 22:30:46 GMT -5
I think immigration laws should be loosened. Our nation is only as powerful as it is now because of immigration, and now we wish to take back on our roots because it may be potentially acceptable to do so in short term. If we dont want people comeing into our nation, at least we should spend our money to improve their nation rather than just lock them out of ours.
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Post by Azan on Jun 30, 2006 22:43:16 GMT -5
Good point, however I still think laws should be tightened, if they hate their government so much then work hard to change it... viva la revolution? ... Ok ok maybe not the best idea. I do agree though, you put it well... tis far better to stop the problem at the source... just like my views on abortion, making it illegal isnt going to solve anything, more women will die, instead put money into teaching abortion alternatives/awareness classes. However illegal immigrants still dont have the right to be here, sure most are hard working, but it doesnt change the fact that they broke the law, and if we dont have law we have chaos. "The empire is law, the law is sacred." -Head of septim coin from the elderscrolls ([nerd emoticon]).
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jul 1, 2006 10:31:07 GMT -5
Yeah, if they're here illegally, they don't have to pay taxes, and that's not fair. I think we should just buy out mexico, or at least offer to buy it.
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Post by ivantheterrific on Jul 16, 2006 22:25:16 GMT -5
America is the greatest nation in the world, and so these mexicans want to run in here and steal our jobs, our money, our benifits, and give it all to mexico, and the latin people. Meanwhile we worked hard to make this nation as great as it is today, our sweat and tears went into building this mighty nation, and im sure our fathers, and our father's fathers, and all the great presidents of their time didn't work hard so that some ungrateful stranger from another land could reap in the benifits. Immigration of barbarians caused the fall of the roman empire, and these barbarians comeing in would just as much have the american empire fall too. I say we should build a wall across the mexican boarder, and then the canadian boarder too, we should limit legal immigration to no more than half the number of people who emigrate away, and anyone caught illegally across our boarders should be tried for treason.
[edited for ethnicism, which is not allowed. I allowed calling them barbarians as technically, barbarians just mean that they talk in a non latin language]
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Post by Azan on Jul 17, 2006 11:53:40 GMT -5
Thats a bit on the harsh side... but for the most part I agree, however do not forget that America was founded on Immigration, most of us came here after the revolution... and I am all up for immigration... just not Illegal Immigration. Also do not forget that the Roman Empire did not fall purely due to Barbarians, they were under attack and they had a failing infrustructure along with narrow minded leaders (Then again we have Bush...). However putting a wall up isnt going to stop them, they will still come reguardless which is why Gamerman has a fairly good point, stop them at their source.
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Post by KiddoFreak on Jul 18, 2006 0:18:13 GMT -5
Alright, Ivan, slow down. "Mexican scum" is really not very level-headed thing to say, second of all, "American empire" strikes me as wrong, as we are not an empire... we're more of a republic or democracy or whatever you'd like to call it. The point I would like to make is that Immigration laws do not only apply to mexicans, don't forget everyone else that wants to get here. I do not agree with illegal immigration, however I have to say that our system of legally obtaining citizenship is arduous and irrevevant. It takes years to be able to be considered a citizen, and you're tested on this that most native Americans have very little concern for. How many of us could, without help of the internet, list off all of the presidents in order? How many of us even care? I think we should make a more reasonable system while still keeping laws in place. I say this because, according to gamerman's plan, America should give money to other countries in aid, however, I do not think this would work. There are too many people complaining that America is the "World Police" force, too many people that think we already spend too much on other people and think that we need to concentrate on helping ourselves out. Giving a large chunk of money to other countries, all of the countries that have people that want to move, would probably accomplish nothing. Not only would America become more in debt than we already are, but the money would probably end up in the wrong hands. In Africa for example, you can't just give money to the government in good faith because the government might just take the money for themselves. I bet that America has done this before, but that isn't the point. The point I'm making is that we should continue allowing people to move into the nation, make the process a little less stupid. I really don't know quite what I would like to see happen in regards to this topic, no clear alternatives are making themselves known. However, I should like to say that I am not just saying all of this without understanding. My more than likely soon-to-be mother-in-law is an immigrant.
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Post by Azan on Jul 19, 2006 14:24:17 GMT -5
Well Gamerman never actually said give them money to help them, he just said spend money to help them, this can include increasing international trade, improoving diplomatic relations, increasing funds for aid, more government donations to things like the Peace Corp., etc. etc. all cost money but benefit us and other nations.
And America is hated/seen as a police force because we continue to meddle in the afairs of others by using our military, there is nothing wrong with peaceful negotiation type meddling. Spending money for the benefit of ourselves and others is not wrong or looked down upon anywhere as far as I know. And even then its not our government but private foundations that do most of that stuff anyways, not to mention the US is not unique in that reguard anyways, its only our show of military that sets us apart from everyone else.
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Post by ivantheterrific on Jul 28, 2006 16:11:55 GMT -5
For your information, Azan, the Roman Empire's decline can be traced very much to immigration. Franks, Lombards, Saxons and most of all the Goths all immigrated into Rome. All declaired themselves Romans. They then backstabbed Rome, claimed territory, and then used the fact that clan loyalty was stronger than national loyalty to make sure that even the Romans themselves could not enforce anything in their territories. Do you think that the Latino immigrants would not do the same if given the chance. Do you think that the Latino immigrants who are here have more loyalty to us than they do to their ethnicity. Just look at any school. What are the latino kids more connected with? Those in their clubs, or those of their ethnicity. If an organization they vollentarily joined, and have common instrests in, has less influence on their friends than their ethnicity, why would you expect that their nation has more influence than their ethnicity?
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Post by Azan on Jul 28, 2006 16:26:44 GMT -5
do not forget that the Roman Empire did not fall purely due to Barbarians. I never said that Immigration did not aid in the fall of Rome. But, I do not think that most illegal immigrants seek to take over America. Most are here for work and hope at a better life. Now does that make it right that they are here? No, they have no right to be here.
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Post by Lobstrosity on Jul 31, 2006 9:12:13 GMT -5
Well said. Furthermore I just have to say yes, illegal immigrants do have loyalty to the country and not only to their former nation. In fact, many immigrants, once here, suddenly want to close the border and prevent other illegal immigrants from coming and getting the same opportunities. Except where family is concerned, I think many illegal immigrants are more loyal to America than to anyone in their old country, especially their former government.
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Post by Azan on Jul 31, 2006 9:19:22 GMT -5
Exactly, there is a reason they theft other than just seeking opportunity, most hate their old government, so why come here to turn it into what they just left behind?
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Post by ivantheterrific on Aug 9, 2006 21:04:53 GMT -5
And yet politicians are careful about going too heavy on closeing the boarders because it does lower the hispanic population's opinion about them. Just becaues a few fringe people come here and then have loyalty here doesn't mean squat in the big picture. And obviously no one immigrates here with the idea of revolting; however if you honestly think that, should the opportunity comes for them to revolt, that they won't do it. You are ingoring the future every bit as much as those who ignore global warming.
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Post by GamerMan on Aug 13, 2006 0:52:37 GMT -5
Who cares if they are loyal to the United States or not. The Hispanic Immigrants who come over here almost all have families, and above all, they are loyal to those families. They all come up here looking for a job so that their FAMILIES would have a better life. Very little of the money made by hispanic men (almost all who come for work are men) they keep for themselves, most get sent down to help their families get a better life. So how likely do you think it is that these men are going to stop providing for their wives and kids and are going to go off to war and possibly get killed leaving their family in a far worse state than they already were!?!
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